Beijing Wide Open

Comment from Rukasu
Time: April 10, 2008, 3:32 pm

Man if I was her, I would have slugged one of the ‘thugs in blue’

Pingback from Tibet » Blog Archive » San Francisco torchbearers stand with Tibet
Time: April 10, 2008, 3:42 pm

[…] Lhadon wrote an interesting post today on San Francisco torchbearers stand with TibetHere’s a quick excerptThank you Majora. Thank you Andrew. […]

Comment from matapita
Time: April 10, 2008, 4:19 pm

Majora, THANK YOU for your bold action. You had EVERY RIGHT as an American to speak up for Tibet. As an American, as a woman, as a person of color, congratulations and hats off to you. I can hardly believe watching you being thrown out of the torch run. That makes quite a statement about the legitimacy of this ceremony. Thank you.

Comment from ZhouXiu
Time: April 10, 2008, 8:04 pm

I have to say it’s really naive and emotional. I really doubt how much she knows about your religion, the area, and the issue.
And actually I only saw American police pushed her away. After all athletes who contact this to politics is crossing the line of IOC.

Besides, I don’t really think you,born in Canada like this ‘because we are american, we can do that’ thing. It doesn’t make sense or change or positive effect. Many Chinese ppl dislike this statement.

I came across an article in BBC today (thank god they at last showed one pic of Chinese ppl and flags, wondering is it because in San Francisco there are too many of our ppl.) I am very happy to see your reasonable opinion rather than a bit sensitive bias. As an activist, true you have to encourage ppl, to drive them, I guess you must be tired from time to time by keeping yourself enthusiastic all the time. And I understand that you have to make voice heard so you shout extremely, be it voice or opinion. Now you have done that. you let the people hear.

But, it can’t solve things out. The only confluence is to make things out of control. Please stop your emotional activities for our common good. Otherwise it is only getting worse both for us and for tibetans in tibet and for you.

But I am asking you to please trust me. i am trying to calm my chinese friends both in london where i am and in china. I refused to be interviewed by our main newspaper because i am for the basic human rights of yours and ours. We admit we have a lot of problems and yet we are still tho slowly but we really are improving and correcting them. We need time. A government running such a crowded and big country needs time. Our prime minister put a lot of issues on the public and critics are sever on newspapers and TV inside China, which you didn’t know. Believe me we are trying.

What you guys are doing here, you can strike for the human right of Tibet. Yes you did and you to some point succeeded. But I bet you know Tibet has been a part of China,tho in a way loosely control, for hundreds of years. And now, there is no possibility for it to be independent.
Some of you said that you don’t care what chinese people are thinking cause they are ‘mind washed’. Be it or not, you are talking about 13 hundred million people. How many of them are for Olimpics ? be it only 10%, there are still 1 hundred million. Yet you have seen how many people gathered in San francisco. You should have known there are much much more.
As your activitists changed from pro-tibet to anti-china/beijing, your anti from the government to our people, our country, our RMB, our ‘made in china’ ,our air pollution, our communism party, everything you have complained about China. YOU WILL NEVER HELP TIBET. Luckily you are not in tibet and never said you have been there. So you don’t really care? I doubt.

I really doubt whether you know what is really good for Tibet once you called home and the Tibetans you claim to be sis and bros.

—————-
As Dalai Lama said to the reuters,Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:40am EDT
“Tibet must have real autonomy. That means deciding defense and foreign affairs and maybe some others, but those themes that Tibetans can work (with) better.”

I ALSO DOUBT ANY COUNTRY WILL ALLOW IT TO BE THIS ‘AUTONOMY’ .

Comment from Diane
Time: April 10, 2008, 9:19 pm

Right the F— on!
Thanks Majora, watching this makes me so mad. We are in America.
Why should a Chinese soldier have the right in AMERICA TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM ANY ONE.

You are great and what you did means more to the world than anything a peoples liberation ( what a joke) soldiers act of ignorance.
FREE TIBET

Comment from Mark Prince / Wendy Cary
Time: April 10, 2008, 10:17 pm

Lhadon and Majorie you are both true heroines !!!

Comment from Thersites D. Scott
Time: April 11, 2008, 11:10 am

Let’s ask the President and other leaders to make their attendance at the Games contingent on Beijing allowing the Dalai Lama to attend the Games. (He said he’d like to go.)

That would be a huge concession by China, it calls their bluff on whether the Olympics should be “above politics”, and it lets them make the decision. Plus, it’s a cleaner test that “talk to the D.L.” (which would end as soon as the Olympics are over). Post on this, with White House, Presidential candidates’, and Pelosi and Reid’s contact info:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m.s.-bellows/activism-you-can-do-send_b_96043.html

Comment from ravi
Time: April 11, 2008, 11:21 am

Zhou Xiu - thanks for being brave enough to post, but I think your point of view is defensive… and defenseless. Please go to the website linked above and try to understand Tibetan’s point of view.

Majora - you’re a hero! Good for you. I’m very proud of you!

Comment from Tian
Time: April 11, 2008, 10:06 pm

That last statement is troublesome if interpreted incorrectly.

Comment from john
Time: April 12, 2008, 4:50 am

Time to stand up and fight!

Here’s a cartoon on youtube called ‘Olympic Torch-ure’ that might appeal to the younger crowd. Warning: it uses abrasive humor and strong language to hammer a point home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5meyBT6E1gY

Comment from FukaLama
Time: April 13, 2008, 12:17 am

This fucking nigger bitch knows a shit about Tibet. I would let his nigger back to the slave age, well suited for Dalai Lama

Comment from Aqua
Time: April 13, 2008, 10:55 am

Kudos to Majora and Andrew. It was disappointing to see the “Thugs In Blue” push her away almost immediately.

Zhou Xiu: I always hoped that the ordinary Chinese citizen would not be as harsh and one-sided towards Tibetans. In SF we pro-china supporters scuffle and attack pro-Tibetan supporters. I see you and many other Chinese commentors saying that Tibet is a part of China and that France and any other pro-Tibet supporter should be banned etc.

I will assume here that you are probably influenced by the Chinese media and propaganda. You are shown TV grabs of Tibetans in Lhasa attacking Han Chinese, you are told repeatedly that Tibet is a part of China and that the Dalai Lama is a “Wolf in Monk’s robes”.

If Tibet was really a part of China, would you, Chinese citizens, stand by and watch the atrocities being inflicted on the Tibetans, (your “countrymen”) quietly. Would you not stand up and speak for Tibetans. Would not ask that Tibetans in Tibet be allowed to practive their religion freely?

The attitude of China towards Tibet is that of an occupier. It does not treat Tibet like a part of China. If it did, would it roll tanks into Lhasa and impose a media blackout?

Pls read this interview of your Chinese Ambassador where he has spoken of China’s takeover of Tibet. Shumin has also likened Tibet’s traditional governance to Nazi Germany He claimed that prior to China’s takeover, Tibet resembled “medieval Europe” and cited a 1939 trip to the mountainous enclave by a Nazi official who, he said, found much in common with the Tibetan system of governance.

So there goes China’s claim that Tibet has always been a part of China.

I urge all Chinese citizens, hackers and spammers to listen to their conscience.

Comment from JM
Time: April 13, 2008, 9:53 pm

Hey, why isn’t the free democratic western media covering the Olympic torch relay in Tanzania Africa? Is it because the Tanzanians support China and that they are African? Or maybe because of the fact that there were NO PROTESTS which means mundane news that will not generate money?

This bigotry is disgusting.

Comment from where is tibet?
Time: April 14, 2008, 9:10 am

i’m laughing my ass off on you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twHzXN3kNTs&feature=related

Comment from where is tibet?
Time: April 14, 2008, 11:13 am

The american government never really cared about tibet, the CIA’s backing of Tibetan insurgents during the 1950s were a part of McCarthy and the Truman administration’s war against the new Communist China in concert with the Korean War. Look what happenned the Afganistan in the 80’s, Iran in the 70’s. As long as the local government is our puppet, who cares what their ideology is.

Comment from Rich
Time: April 14, 2008, 11:24 am

Why would you laugh at Tibetans because 3 or 4 stupid Americans in San Francisco can’t find Tibet on a map? You can always find a few ignorant people if you look hard enough; why don’t we see any of the Tibetans and genuine supporters who could point it out in a heartbeat?

The root of the problem is that Tibet has been annexed onto China and is not depicted on any modern maps, making it unlikely for Tibet to be taught in any world geography class. I think the video does more to attest to that sad reality than anything else. It certainly does not reflect on Tibetans since none were even interviewed.

Comment from where is tibet?
Time: April 14, 2008, 11:56 am

if we american occupies tibet, there will be churches all over it. how glorious will that be. praise the lord!

Comment from where is tibet?
Time: April 14, 2008, 12:30 pm

when did the tibetan lords’ mapped their so called sovereign country? using what? satellite? geographically, tibet is isolated from the north, west, and the south. it’s only open to the east, where it has had relationship with since the 7th centry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_Tibet

Comment from ZhouXiu
Time: April 14, 2008, 4:38 pm

Hi Aqua, glad to see another one replying to me, thus we can solve it over.
But seems you are a bit emotional, well I fully understand. And have to point out I have been in London for half a year and was never interested in politics( seldom watched TV in China, except American series and Japanese cartoons online, Oops copy rights) so~ not sure how you estimate my being influenced by the ‘propaganda’~

I understand your way of thinking, western way. straight, but simple. Maybe when you learn some Mandarin,which maybe you don’t bother at all, will help much.
I will get back to you trying to explain clearly. Have to sleep, goodnight.

Comment from Justice4All
Time: April 14, 2008, 6:18 pm

Basically you are thanking these two morons. Well, you are worse than them, so, why not.

Comment from Tenzin
Time: April 16, 2008, 2:50 pm

Here is what I found in the NYT, April 13 2008. There were a few people who were not sure if Tibet was an independent country when China invaded and they seemed unsure if to trust Chinese or the Tibetan side.
The NYT has had some very interesting articles about the Olympics and the recent pro-Tibet protests. Here are bits and pieces from “Don’t Know Much About Tibetan History,” (NYT, April 13 2008) by Elliot Sperling, the director of the Tibtan Studies program at Indiana University’s department of Central Eurasia Studies.

“The claim that Tibet entertained only personal relationships with China at the leadership level is easily rebutted. Administrative records and dynastic histories outline the governing structures of Mongol and Manchu rule. These make it clear that Tibet was subject to rules, laws and decisions made by Yuan and Qing rulers. Tibet was not independent during these two periods. One of the Tibetan cabinet ministers summoned to Beijing at the end of the 18th century describes himself ambiguously in his memoirs as a subject of the Manchu emperor.
But although Tibet did submit to the Mongol and Manchu Empires, neither attached Tibet to China. The same documentary records that shows Tibetan subjugation to the Mongols and Manchus also shows that China’s intervening Ming Dynasty (which ruled from 1368 to 1644) had no control over Tibet. This is problematic, given China’s insistence that Chinese sovereignty was exercised in an unbroken line from the 13th century onward.
The idea that Tibet became a part of China in the 13th century is a very recent construction. In the early parts of the 20th century, Chinese writers generally dated the annexation of Tibet to the 18th century. They described Tibet’s status under the Qing with a term that designates a “feudal dependency,” not an integral part of the country. And that’s because Tibet was ruled as such, within the empires of the Mongols and the Manchus. When the Qing dynasty collapsed in 1911, Tibet became independent once again.
From 1912 until the founding of the People’s Republic of China in 1949, no Chinese government exercised control over what is today China’s Tibet Autonomous Region. The Dalai Lama’s government alone ruled the land until 1951.
“Marxist China adopted the linguistic sleight of hand that asserts that it has always been a unitary multinational country, not the hub of empires. There is now firm insistence that “Han,” actually on of the several ethnonyms for “Chinese” refers to only one of the Chinese nationalities. This was a conscious decision of those who constructed 20th century Chinese identity. (It stands in contrast to the Russian decision to use a political term, “Soviet,” for the peoples of the Union of the Soviet Socialist Republics.)
There is something less to the argument of both sides, but the argument on the Chinese side is weaker. Tibet was not “Chinese” until Mao Zedong’s armies marched in and made it so.”

Comment from joan
Time: April 17, 2008, 8:18 pm

Fuccccccccccccccccccccccccccck you

You bitccccccccccccccccccccccccccch Fuckalama

Comment from ZhouXiu
Time: April 19, 2008, 1:16 am

“From 1912 until the founding of the People’s Republic of China in 1949, no Chinese government exercised control over what is today China’s Tibet Autonomous Region. The Dalai Lama’s government alone ruled the land until 1951.”

I don’t think at that time Tibet was fully independent at all and I read that government of Republic of China has claimed its sovereignty upon Tibet and never admitted Tibet as an independent country.

What you argued about based on a historic background where China has been invaded for 200 years thus the control to Tibet was weakened. After 1951, the control is tightened again.

And ctually the Yuan Dynasty begained from 1271.

Comment from ZhouXiu
Time: April 19, 2008, 1:53 am

Aqua, if you want to know my, and most sensible Chinese people’s point to this issue, see the link below.
If you really want to MAKE A CHANGE, you will find way to understand it.
http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/itsc/cumassmailing/undergrad/20080411/undergrad_20080411_01.html

below is a french video,partly explain why the activities will NOT MAKE A CHANGE but anger China,Chinese:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNqfFJRJj0o

Comment from ZhouXiu
Time: April 19, 2008, 2:00 am

Here is a Tibetan girl’s opinion about this issue. I won’t bother to translate. IF YOU THINK FOR TIBETANS’ GOOD, AT LEAST YOU WILL FIND WAY TO UNDERSTAND THEM!

ZD is short for ppl who want Tibet to be indepent country.
Z,xizang means Tibet.
DL means Dalai Lama
BS means look down upon
GCD means communism party.

早上就在群里留言说要写些关于藏族人生活的事， 晚上做完实验才有时间坐在电脑前，写些群里朋友的关注，谢谢，
我要申明一点，我所说的只代表我所接触到的藏人，我所了解的事情
首先介绍下我自己，出生在青海省海南藏族自治州同德县，青藏高原上翻过日月山的同德草原，纯牧区的地方，我家也是纯正的安多Z族。在这里和大家解释一下，藏族分三支，康巴藏族，安多藏族和博巴藏族，藏族的勇士多出于康巴藏族，康巴汉子在藏区也被认为是最血性，最男人的象征。现在存在的藏族是以康巴藏族和安多藏族为主。
藏传佛教里有很多支派，而DL喇嘛和班禅额尔德尼所在的黄教只是一个比较大的支派，在西藏的历史上班禅和DL是分而治之的，班禅所管理的是后藏地区。说这些就是想要大家知道，有些时候藏传佛教的信徒就不一定是DL的信徒。
如果当初藏族还是吐蕃国的话，在文成公主进藏和亲后，我想藏族和汉族就真正意义上是一家人了，在当初英法联军入侵西藏的时候最先起来抵抗的是西藏本土的藏族人，所以我一直认为，ZD可以小闹（这句话我会在后面给出我自己的理由），为了争取民族上的尊重和认同。但是在中国之外闹，在曾今入侵过西藏的英法的庇护下，我只想狠狠的BS那些ZD分子，一百年前的耻辱你们忘了么？争取所谓的‘独立’真的比民族尊严还重要么？
从西藏和平解放说起吧，西藏和平解放确实是一件让藏族人民欢欣鼓舞的事情，藏族人民终于翻身做主，虽然日子还很贫寒，生活还很困难，那时候的DL上师和上师都是坚决拥护GCD的，至于DL最后为什么叛逃，我不得而知，但是藏族人的抵制，或者仇视则是从那时候慢慢开始的，因为藏族人的信仰，民族文化，基本上都是从藏传佛教延伸开来的，所以在很多藏族人眼里，宗教，或者上师大于一切。藏族人一心向善，一心向佛，对物质生活的要求却很少，共产党解放西藏，被认为是功德无量的事，很多藏族人宁愿家徒四壁也要给寺院做供养，很多人都不在乎自己有多少积蓄能不能买房，最在意的是定期的供养，说到这可能有人要说就是因为这些无知的供养才让ZD有足够的资本猖狂，所以我想请大家尊重或者理解藏族人几百年来形成的宗教信仰。
青藏铁路修通，举国欢呼，但是其实有不少的藏民，并不在乎这条铁路，甚至有时候是厌烦，因为他带来的滚滚人流扰乱了藏族人正常的生活，带来了众多旅游人群，可是同时也带来了某些人对环境的破坏和对藏族文化，对佛教文化的不尊重，这在虔诚的藏族人眼里是对藏族文化的一种亵渎。很多人都是因为这个，对汉族，对内地存在偏见。
还有一点不得不提的就是现在绝大多数的藏族青年都很有民族意识，民族自豪感，因为我们都是想要维护自己的文化，维护自己的民族文化不至于没落，但是政府的有些措施，却让很多藏族人产生的政府想要同化藏族的感觉，举个简单的例子，在xizang，只要你家里有一个人考上了公务员，是党员，全家都不允许再设经堂。还有一些，我就不举例了。
说这些，并不是想要挑起民族矛盾，只是想让大家知道，藏族人是怎么想的，为什么有些藏族青年会义无反顾的加入到ZD中去。但是这些善良的孩子都被欺骗的，只是成了某些人为了达到自己的政治目的的一个工具，我们藏族人就算再有意见，我们还是清楚的知道，并且一直认为，汉藏是一家，五十六个民族永远是一家。ZD组织ZQH现在完完全全是一个恐怖组织，想告诉那些受骗的藏族同胞，现在回头，还来得及，祖国会原谅你。
或许当年大家向往的圣地，向往的质朴，虔诚，现在成了更多人攻击藏族人愚昧无知，不懂得感恩回报还翻脸不认人的话柄。这也是让我非常难受的地方。我们都是中国人，我们成长在一片土地上，我们也爱国。！
继续现在藏族人生活的话题，现在藏族人生活的很好，中央给了很多帮助和支持的措施，藏族人是很知足很懂得回报的。政府每年给我们的补贴和扶持项目很多，都是为了切实改善我们的生活，举个我自己的例子来说，我考上大学，除了自己的努力，还必须加上政府的民族扶持政策，高考的时候因为我考的是汉校，我有三十五分的加分，十分牧区照顾分，二十五分少数民族照顾分。在我的学校，学校给我的照顾也不用多说。我的爷爷是为八十多岁的老人，从去年，政府又给我的爷爷每年六百块钱的补助。我们的学校，很多体育器材也是国家资助或者民间机构捐助的。所以我们现在的生活，我们能在晚饭后还能去广场跳锅庄，而不是吃了上顿没下顿，我们应该学会感恩。
ZD再怎么闹，都是中国人自己的事，中国的内政，ZD分子跑出国门去当跳梁小丑，妄图借奥运会的机会宣扬自己，丢中国的脸，是最让我不齿的行为。
所以对ZD里那些白痴的外国人，我想对你们说，你他妈懂个屁啊，xizang在那里你们知道么，一帮傻逼，一帮无耻的外国佬。
对ZD里的那些别有用心的人，我想对你们说，祖国永远都不欢迎你们，你们死后就让你们的灵魂永世不得超生，格萨尔战神没有你们这样的子孙！！！！

这些只是我个人的一些看法。仅代表个人。
支持奥运，反对ZD，我们永远都是一家人！！~~~~~~~~~~