The proof that’s so hard to look at
These photos came in last night (warning: they are very graphic) just before we went to bed. They destroyed all of us here for a while. It’s one thing to talk about what is happening inside Tibet, but it’s another to see it. The monks of Kirti Monastery received another batch of photos today. People inside are doing everything in their power to get the story out.
As we struggled to confirm how many are dead, their names and their ages, we received news that one of the victims was related to our dear friend Lobsang. But our community is small and that’s how it turned out. I talked to Lobsang on Skype today. I asked him how he was doing. He said he was ok and gave me his beautiful smile. It was 4:30m in New York and the office was alive with activity. He’d spent all day trying to piece together the stories of Amdo Ngaba, where he is from. I told him I want to be an honourary Amdo; that his people are tough. He laughed. And went back to work.
Posted: March 18th, 2008 under News.
translate:
Comments: 24
Comments
Comment from chingchong
Time: March 18, 2008, 12:40 pm
fake pictures, got from another timezone and another place
Comment from Sari
Time: March 18, 2008, 1:50 pm
These images are sickening, and confirm the fears and suspicions many of us had, I am afraid.
Are these being shown in mainstream media? Never underestimate the power of the media. Please, I would encourage people to spread these pictures to their local newpapers, news outlets and talk show hosts (such as Oprah.) The more we can get the media to discuss the matter, the better the chances that this time, Tibet will not be forgotten. A vital question however will be source credibility, so it is important to have them verified independently.
Pingback from De plumes et d’encre … » Tibet : le sang coule
Time: March 18, 2008, 4:02 pm
[…] The proof thats so hard to look at (Beijing Wide Open, anglais) : Photos (ATTENTION violence […]
Comment from Rukasu
Time: March 18, 2008, 7:12 pm
Horrible, Phayul had some awful pictures as well, so depressing.
Comment from Philippe
Time: March 19, 2008, 3:13 am
Bonjour,
Je soutiens le combat des Tibétains pour un Tibet libre, ou du moins, un Tibet respecté par la Chine, car je n’ignore pas le déséquilibre flagrant du rapport des forces.
Je suis pour le boycoot des JO pour une raison simple : Nous n’avons que peu d’armes contre la toute puissance de la Chine et il faut donc faire feu de tous bois.
Je n’entends pas faire la fête dans un pays qui écrase les droits de l’Homme avec ses chars.
Je crois que de très nombreux Français partagent le même avis que moi !
Philippe
Comment from Sari
Time: March 19, 2008, 4:57 am
Please sign the following petition at Avaaz which calls on the Chinese government to end the violence:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/tibet_end_the_violence/98.php/?cl_tf_sign=1,
Please pass it on to your friends and family.
Comment from Tian
Time: March 19, 2008, 8:36 pm
Forgive me for my ignorance, but are you Tibetan people really advocating and BELIEVING that Amdo is part of of “Tibet”? If Amdo is Sichuan then I am truly shocked. Tibetans had and have never been a majority in Sichuan. The majority of the people there did and do not practice “Tibetan” culture or speak the ethnic Tibetan language. On what grounds do you claim it a part of “Tibet” other than the brief period in the last 5,000 years when your “Tibetan” king conquered, subdued, and oppressed the Han locals there?
As for the pictures, my deepest and sincerest condolences to the victims and their families. As much as I love my country, I do admit, the executive branch of the legal system is very harsh. This is largely because of history. In China, there’s no such thing as a peaceful protest. These only exist in the west. In China, 98% of the “peaceful” protest turn violent and eventually result in civil war if unchecked. Out of consideration for public safety and image, the government has chosen to deal harshly with protesters. Although I don’t agree with this, I also understand that at this stage in modern Chinese history, it can’t be done any other way.
Comment from Tian
Time: March 19, 2008, 9:00 pm
Having had extensive exposure to both Western and Eastern cultures, I cannot help but note the ignorance coming Westerners. Truly, how can you possibly judge China if you don’t understand anything about it? Most of you know nothing about Chinese culture, laws, society, history, or the language. Even if you do, most of you still won’t understand it. So how can you judge China? This is so absurd that it is appalling. It is like a layman dictating to a theoretical physics professor his opinions and judgements on the theories of quantum mechanics after reading a few science fiction novels. Even worse, this layman is expecting the professor to AGREE with him on his absurdity. If the professor doesn’t, the layman is using all his power (mental, financial, and political) to get him fired from the university. This is exactly what you people are doing.
Please do not preach to us about the necessary properties of universal humanity. All you people see are what’s on the surface, and even these are determined by the whims and agendas of your unfair media. Just because you don’t understand what’s going on, doesn’t mean that the government in China is inherently cruel.
Most educated Chinese people today don’t even bother debating or explaining to foreigners about their opinions. This is because most of them have grown tired reasoning with irrational, ignorant foreigners who know nothing except blabber back what they heard and saw on their idiot-box.
Comment from Rich
Time: March 19, 2008, 9:59 pm
Tian, it’s ironic that you lecture us westerners on our ignorance about China while showing complete ignorance on Tibet. Of course Tibetans consider Amdo part of Tibet. Amdo is NOT equivalent to Sichuan province and Tibetans do not claim Sichuan province as a whole. Amdo consists of almost all of Qinghai province (basically everything except Xining city and the immediate vicinity, which were included in the provincial boundaries to make sure that the majority population was non-Tibetan), along with the southwest part of Gansu province and the northwest part of Sichuan province. Kham consists of the eastern part of the TAR and the western part of Sichuan province. One should note the extreme degree of “carving up” done to these two Tibetan provinces, which served as an attempt to break up traditional unities and loyalties. In case you’re wondering, someone with a reasonable level of familiarity with Tibet can tell which areas belong to which traditional Tibetan province (cholka) based on the dialects spoken and the styles of clothing, etc.
Comment from tenzin
Time: March 20, 2008, 5:01 am
Tian, going by the record of your govt. cover-up and how chinese people are starving to death due to the over population and not being able to feed them and sustain a good public image..i would say yours cruel govt.. The surface you are talking is the chinese bubbly development which is soon going to burst. but underneath lots people are dying …the fact that chinese have worst humanright record poor so..how can you be so retard in defending your bloody govt. which unleashed the tanks and guns on chinese students..Arent you ashmed of such govt. Perhaps you are mentally retard to forget such an inhumane act of your govt.
Comment from pasang
Time: March 20, 2008, 5:32 am
Dear Mr. Tian,
Your example is very much suited for your position and opinion. May be you are even worse than that lay man who wants of teach this phyisics personality, you seems to be one who is fooling himself in physics world knowing nothing in depth. so dont keep fooling yourself and dont drag people to belive in yours thoughts.
Its great that you love your country and keeping it high. But its a gobalisation world and what is happening in tibet and other minorities in china are going to effect all its citizen. You will be also in the recieving end.
No people in this this world fight for worthless things and we tibetan believe, no one can win alone. Solution for any conficts should be in the win-win situations. So why dont you instead of correcting world, just try to make an over view of all the happenings without taking any bias. i am sure you are going to get the aswer from within.
Hope we will have more feed back from your side with realistic views which every one can understand and can change to be better person.
thank you
Comment from Nyima T.
Time: March 20, 2008, 7:39 am
DEAR TIAN,
I am Tibetan, and I replied to another of your posts on this blog.
Thank you for asking for clarification, I appreciate your willingness to ask what we Tibetans think. The areas of historic Tibet that are outside the “Tibetan Autonomous Region” are PARTS of Qinghai, Sichuan, Yunnan, and Gansu. Certainly not all of those provinces. And the Chinese government itself recognizes those parts as being Tibetan “autonomous counties or prefectures.” So there is really no question even from Beijing that they are Tibetan.
This is a map of historical Tibet and the “Tibetan Autonomous Region”. With almost 100% overlap, every area of historical Tibet outside the TAR has been given Tibetan “autonomous county or prefecture” status by the Chinese government: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Historic_Tibet_Map.png/800px-Historic_Tibet_Map.png
In the early 20th century, Tibet and China were consistently fighting border wars. Sometimes Tibet would gain land, sometimes China would. But the people on the ground were Tibetan, and gave their loyalty to the Dalai Lama.
Then when China invaded Tibet in 1951 and set up the “Tibetan Autonomous Region” in 1965, it re-drew the borders of Tibet so that the MAJORITY of Tibetans now lived outside of the “Tibet Autonomous Region.”
Why is that? In Xinjiang, almost all the Uiguyrs live there, they are not spread over many provinces. Tibetans believe that China was especially worried about Tibet breaking free, since in 1951 Tibet had a fully functioning government and army. Tibet is the only “part of China” that there is basically a surrender treaty (the 17 Point Agreement), which shows you how special was Tibet’s incorporation into China. So in order to forestall Tibet breaking free, Beijing broke Tibet apart into five parts. Tibetans consider this a tragedy.
I hope this helps explain.
Nyima
Comment from Nyima T.
Time: March 20, 2008, 7:39 am
DEAR TIAN,
I am Tibetan, and I replied to another of your posts on this blog.
Thank you for asking for clarification, I appreciate your willingness to ask what we Tibetans think. The areas of historic Tibet that are outside the “Tibetan Autonomous Region” are PARTS of Qinghai, Sichuan, Yunnan, and Gansu. Certainly not all of those provinces. And the Chinese government itself recognizes those parts as being Tibetan “autonomous counties or prefectures.” So there is really no question even from Beijing that they are Tibetan.
In the early 20th century, Tibet and China were consistently fighting border wars. Sometimes Tibet would gain land, sometimes China would. But the people on the ground were Tibetan, and gave their loyalty to the Dalai Lama.
Then when China invaded Tibet in 1951 and set up the “Tibetan Autonomous Region” in 1965, it re-drew the borders of Tibet so that the MAJORITY of Tibetans now lived outside of the “Tibet Autonomous Region.”
Why is that? In Xinjiang, almost all the Uiguyrs live there, they are not spread over many provinces. Tibetans believe that China was especially worried about Tibet breaking free, since in 1951 Tibet had a fully functioning government and army. Tibet is the only “part of China” that there is basically a surrender treaty (the 17 Point Agreement), which shows you how special was Tibet’s incorporation into China. So in order to forestall Tibet breaking free, Beijing broke Tibet apart into five parts. Tibetans consider this a tragedy.
I hope this helps explain.
Nyima
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: March 22, 2008, 12:56 pm
Dear sir,
I feel sick as our policicians use only lip-service, as China means money for our western coundtries.
Brao to the British Prime minister, to Angela Mekez and the Polish President. Those who stand up for Tibet in France have no political power to do something, but at meast they do speak.
If Great Britan, the United States, Canada and some others had done to us during the 2nd last war what we’re doing to you, we couldn’t even envisage the Big market China means to our businessmen and SOME of our politicians.
I lam a buddhist but i say : PEU RANGZEN
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: March 22, 2008, 9:59 pm
On Chinese international t.v, the chinese minister of foreign affairs replied to a question : Chinese look after her own interests in Africa, not after other nations. We do have some friends in Africa We are a little country, but when we are big enough, sure we’ll look after the worl. Chilling, isn’t it? Those who do not grant diplomatic bach up to the Tibetan cause should ponder that point…
Comment from spysmustgo
Time: March 23, 2008, 2:40 pm
Is it really true that China never allowed peaceful protest at any time in its history….is that really true..????
What about Tibet, was peaceful protest allowed there? Can anyone enlighten me on this?
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: March 28, 2008, 12:13 am
Lahonlags,
we feel proud and sorry for these courageous monks.
Let’s hope for once that justice an human right will prevail -not ‘real politik’, whixh under the Pétain régime in France consisted in not fighting the Nazi tolitarian regime wit General de Gaule; which consisted in handing jews, partisans, gypsies, homosexual and to on to the Nazi tortirer : this is, what some peiople call -pretending it isn’t so’ Real Politik : not diplomatically doing anything for thes non-violment monks.0
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: March 28, 2008, 2:14 am
we feel proud and sorry for these courageous monks.
Let’s hope for once that justice and human rights will prevail -not ‘real politik’, which under the Pétain ’s régime in France consisted, as opposed to General de Gaule, in not fighting the tolitarian nazi regime and amounted to handing jews, partisans, gypsies, homosexuals to on to the Nazi tortioners : this is what some peiople call -pretending it isn’t so- : Real Politik : not diplomatically doing anything for non-violment monks or any people who could prevent not grabbing more money by helping desperate people.
If our President keeps to his words as opposed to others and “doesn’t chat, but act., bravo.
Thanks for your comment! It
Please, delete my previous message
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: March 28, 2008, 10:41 am
Well done Britain’s GCHO viasatellite, from the government communications agency!Subject: Ecco i monaci che hanno causato le violenze a Lhasa!!!
Beijin organized the ynrest in Tibet!
‘Pechino orchestrava la rivolta nel Tibet’
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: April 17, 2008, 3:12 am
Rich, no need to explain anythoing to Tian, he is told and maybe paid to write propagand
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: April 23, 2008, 9:56 am
Conmmusist party in Lhassa repressed peaceful demo then people not even speaking tibetan used dressed as monks to start violent deeds; aventually they sent a picture of a film to dixcedite their bad deeds. They make the world spew!
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: April 23, 2008, 10:27 am
Chinese kgb has benn overtaking my pc… why are scimmunist-slave party given the opportunity to demonstrate in civilized cities (London and Paris) and why aren’t we permitted to demonstrate to back u Darfour an Tibet in Beijing? Because Beijing is Munich 1°33…
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: April 23, 2008, 10:31 am
Beijing is Berlin & München 1033, : stop thethem do more evil things: Long live Darfour, Tibet and Non violent China!
Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: April 23, 2008, 10:32 am
Munich 1933, 1939 = Beijin 2008.
Write a comment