Beijing Wide Open

Comment from yuen
Time: March 26, 2008, 3:02 am

what about democracy?

I see a real dilemma for both dalai lama and his followers; they need each other, yet they cannot work together

dalai wants a deal with beijing so that he can live his final years back home, but his followers make such a deal impossible

the followers need him to bring attention, even admiration, to their cause, but having a living buddha as leader is contrary to democracy; it even makes the other side sound politically more up to date

so what is they way out? well you wont get much useful advice from britain or india, both with a suspect past in their relation to tibet; not from taiwan, which has messed up its own independence dream through corruption; not from usa, because it is too busy in the middle east

Pingback from #11.1 « International Tibet Solidarity Network
Time: March 26, 2008, 3:24 am

[…] 26, 2008 by Tashi Lhadon Tethong from Beijing Wide Open on what the issue really is. As usual, she nails […]

Comment from Com Tibet
Time: March 26, 2008, 4:10 am

The Tibetan Youth Congress states “To struggle for the total independence of Tibet even at the cost of one´s life.” Of course the problem now is that the Dalai Lama has abandoned calling for the independence of Tibet. And he has maintained strictly his non-violent stance.

Comment from Diane
Time: March 26, 2008, 6:36 am

Couldn’t have been said better.

It is just like the Chinese Communist Government to try to turn this issue into something that they them selfs are masters of -VIOLENCE.

They are doing their best to spread lies and deceive the world, but in the end goodness and truth will always win out over evil.

They have filled the internet and especially You Tube with hundreds of spam video’s. Makes me ask the Question, what is Google doing about this????
Oh surprise, NOTHING!

Thanks Lhadon, for your caring heart and for the amazing will of the beautiful Tibetan people.

Free Tibet!

Comment from Lazare
Time: March 26, 2008, 1:26 pm

A good way to refocus that conversation (rioter vs freedom fighters) would be to reframe it with a description of the nature of the chinese regime. China is not free: it’s a communist/military dictatorship. There’s no freedom of opinion, press, or religion. No freedom of dissent. Chinese jails are full of political prisoners who are routinely tortured. Courageous Tibetans risk their lives for manifesting because of the ultra repressive chinese regime. A fight for freedom in Tibet is a fight for freedom in China. Free Tibet/Free China!

Comment from Lama
Time: March 27, 2008, 6:37 am

What did you mean by “They have filled the internet and especially You Tube with hundreds of spam video’s”? Did you mean I am hired by CCP? No I don’t like ccp, on the other hand, I don’t not like west rumor. Before you give your conclusion, please show some proof, or else shut up you month!

Comment from Tenzin
Time: March 29, 2008, 12:35 pm

I admire what you are doing for the Tibetan cause. But does it really matter if China is trying to portray the recent events in a different light. I don’t think it matters what China says. The simple fact is that what happened is Tibet has brought international attention to Tibet, not to mention deliberate support from the US, such as Nancy Pellosi visiting Dharamsala. I did not think that such a thing will ever happen, but it happened. It does not matter why the US is concerned about Tibet. The fact that the US cares about Tibet is the crux of the issue. Similarly, how China tries to portray the events in Tibet does not matter. The fact that it has garnered international attention after several decades of non-action is the whole point. We don’t have to worry what the world thinks of China. It is well know that human rights are a big concern in China and freedoms such as the freedom of press and individual freedoms are curtailed in China are common knowledge.

Comment from Pierre Simonet
Time: March 29, 2008, 1:18 pm

Laman never heard a lama saying ’shut up!’ You must be a communist party lama, did I guess right? Did you have a chance of looking at this British satellite picture of chinese soldiers dressing up as lama to stir up all this violence? Why did the chinese army surrounded the moslem district yesterday (march 28th)? Be polite, you people are so vulgar -even when you pretend to be nice guys and gals on your international satate tvs.

Comment from peruviangold
Time: March 29, 2008, 1:34 pm

this website is full of bullshit, racism and biased info towards chinese.. the SFT should seriously train the chinese propagandist to write a better propaganda report or make a video, because SFT is so good at it and makes the chinese biased video look like a cartoon.. tell SFT tell us where do u receive most of your funding…

Comment from Tian
Time: March 29, 2008, 3:40 pm

Lhadon, I admire you for your courage and your fervent zeal. But I have a question for you. How long have you lived in Tibet? I saw on another post that said you grew up in Canada, which assumably has a very low Tibetan population. Do you see yourself fit as a leader for this cause even though you do not understand the history of the conflict from an oriental lens?

Interestingly, the most ardent Tibetan independence supporters are all foreigners. Meaning westerners or Tibetans born abroad. These people first do not understand the culture, history, or language of the conflicting parties involved and they also don’t understand the Han or modern Tibetan perspective on this issue. Sure, I would believe that there are Tibetan separatists living in Tibet right now who are too afraid to speak out. But understand that there is also another percentage of the Tibetan population there who are simply people trying to get on with their lives like anyone else. Rebellion from these Tibetans are more likely the consequent expression from modern social pressure rather than an outpouring of nationalistic and/or idealistic zeal.

Take a look at the pictures on this issue. And by this I mean from an unbiased standpoint; both western/Tibetan separatist and CCP. Most of the rioters this year are young men who look like they are in their 20s-30s. Now, judging from the fact that all humans are equal and dictated by the same laws of human nature, lets take this situation out of its context. Why does this group of people represent the majority in the riots? A possible explanation might be that they are disgruntled youths in society who as a result of modern social pressure such as unemployment used this situation to let off some steam. Indeed, I think this is the case. Look at what the rioters targeted…shops and banks. If they are truly rioting for the sake of nationalism, then they should have attacked government buildings rather than robbing the banks. Interestingly, the Tibetans LIVING OUTSIDE OF TIBET attacked Chinese government buildings rather than shops in their respective countries. Doesn’t this raise some doubts as to motives?

On the issue of past violence/atrocities committed by the CCP government on the Tibetan people, there is no doubt. The CCP leadership is completely at fault for their unsophisticated and fanatical approach toward administration during the 60s-80s of the past century. During this period, the CCP government defaced and looted Tibetan monasteries, oppressed Tibetan religion, and terrorized the religious elite. Also, it is quite possible that during the cultural revolution fanatical red guards raped and killed nuns and insulted monks. Furthermore, I would believe that torture was used as a form of interrogation. This is all HIGHLY CONDEMNABLE. And as a human being born from Chinese ancestry, I deeply regret this. However, realize that the CCP government not only apologized for its previous errors but has also taken measures to repay the previous wrongs. Today’s China is not the China of the 60s and 70s. The central government strayed far from idealistic politics and instead focused on pragmatic policies that enhance the livelihood of its people. The result is a somewhat laissez faire market economy that provides ample, fair opportunities for self maximization. For minorities, subsidies are guaranteed by law. The whole package looks very much like affirmative action policies in the U.S. but it gives more.

Comment from Tian
Time: March 29, 2008, 3:41 pm

Tibetan culture is promoted in all the major cities when financially feasible. And there’s no bigotry or racism. If there is, the offended minority is more than protected by the law. I truly think, having traveled and lived abroad that China is more tolerant and fair than any country in the west when dealing with minorities. In America, the white majority actively oppress the Asians, Africans, and Latinos. I think I don’t need to go into the details. In Europe, there is now a growing resentment of muslims and Africans. The French government banned muslim women from wearing the Hijab. And the Spanish are already pondering the benefits of another crusade. It is only by sheer luck that Germany isn’t by the Mediterranean, if it was, god knows what they would have come up with. Lastly, when I was in Switzerland, I saw a Swiss commercials that tried to discourage Africans from going to Switzerland in search of a better life. THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE DEMOCRATIC WEST. CHAMPION OF FREEDOM, LIBERTY, AND EQUALITY FOR ALL. Tibetan separatists, you say this is what you want in China. Are you sure? If the Han majority adopts an American way of treating minorities, I ASSURE YOU YOUR ORDEAL WOULD BE WORSE.

On the issue of independence. I think the only advocates are foreigners and foreign born Tibetans. The vast majority of Tibetans living in China, from what I saw, wish for a safe, secure, life where they are free to practice their religion and do what they want. The state allows this. As long as they don’t band together and design plans for violent protests that murder innocent women and children, nobody cares what they do. Even your holiness the Dalai Lama preached for “greater autonomy, NOT independence”. LISTEN TO YOUR LEADER. Because independence is not the wise choice from a economic, social, and political standpoint.

Comment from K
Time: March 29, 2008, 11:31 pm

Hello, Lhadon.
I am K living in Tokyo and a supporter for FREE TIBET!.
I joined the FREE TIBET demonstration in Tokyo on 22/3/08.
Please do not forget that three are many supporters fot Tibet in Japan.
Citizen of world will act againt the violence on Tibetan people and culture.
Why don’t we wake Hu Jintao up and make him know that we all live in 21th century.
Hurray Hurray Lhadon! FREE FREE TIBET!

Comment from Tenzin
Time: April 1, 2008, 11:34 am

Thank you Tian for your long monologue. I appears to me that you are quite sensible and lack the fanactical fervor some of your countrymen have shown on this website. First of all, it is amazing to me that China and the Chinese people portray the situation in Tibet as a domestic situation. We are not one of China’s minorities; we are a different nation and a different people. I was reading an article in the NYT and this Chinese woman in front of a map of China and Tibet, was expressing her concern, why China has been so lax in it’s quelling the riots. She wanted the Chinese government to take severe military actions in Tibet. It really did not surprise me that a lot of Chinese people have similar feelings. Take a look at the map of Tibet; why would any Chinese want to give Tibet it’s freedom or genuine autonomy when they have this massive piece of land to call their own. It is similar to someone coming in possession of something valuable through illegal means and not wanting to let it go, simply because it is too valuable to part with. The Chinese government and it’s media is to be largely blamed for the Chinese psyche concerning Tibet. The Chinese think that Tibet is a part of China since most Chinese have been taught this from the get go. They have never had the opportuinity to know a counterpoint to what is being taught to the Chinese and what is being printed in the propagandist Chinese media.

And regarding your argument concerning the riots being perpetrated by young people who feel they lack opportuinity is also only hypothetical. You too don’t know for sure why the riots really took place. Apart from what the world knows, nobody knows for sure how the circumstances came about save for the Tibetans who were involved in the action. So, to suggest that disgruntled young Tibetans caused the riots is essentially false. That could very well be a reason for the riots. It makes all the sense in the World.

Imagine this scenario: All high posts in Tibet are occupied by Chinese. Most shops and businesses are owned by the Chinese in Lhasa. Tibetans are looked upon as lazy and unclean by the Chinese. There are lot of young Tibetan men who are unemployed in their own country. Now, why does it surprise anyone that young Tibetan men went about destroying Chinese shops and businesses is beyond me. So, in other words, just boiling down the riots in Lhasa to feelings of jealousy against successful Chinese merchants is over-simplyfying the situation.
There could have been many reasons for why the riots took place. Acting is such brazen and little regard for one’s own safety, I think, calls for more than just jealous tendencies. Lack of opportuinity could certainly be a part of it, but to assume that there were no deeper feelings of Tibetan nationalism among the rioters is certainly false.

Comment from Tenzin
Time: April 1, 2008, 12:07 pm

Tian, your second argument that China treats Tibetans better thnn America treats it’s minorities is absolutely false. I don’t blame you for you ignorance because you may have read a book or two and maybe you have a friend or two that have said a few things and you have come to the conclusion that the West treats immigrants badly. Such bold and all-encompassing statements should not be treated so lightly. You seem to oversimplify issues that cannot be fully understood in a paragraph or even a book. America is one of the countries in the World, where a person can be whoever he or she wants to be.

Take for example, Chinese Americans, who number several hundred thousands. There are a lot of Chinese Americans here, and a lot of them are very successful as lawyers, doctors, engineers, businessmen etc. There are some very wealthy Chinese Americans here, and the same goes for other minorities who are of Indian, Japanese, Vienemese acenstory. Certainly there are recent immigrants who have a tough time meeting ends, but it is certainly not true that America and other western countries treat minorities badly.

American has over 20 million illegal immigrants. They have not rounded them up enmasse and sent them home. I don’t know how China would have reacted under the same situation. America, and western countries have laws and regulations, that oversee that all citizens have equal rights. I hope that I have made myself clear. Actually, if China were America, it would be a whole different situation. America is a country with it’s own many flaws, but it is far better than China.

You are correct in saying that the people who seem to be doing anything for the Tibetan cause are foreigners or Tibetans born outside of Tibet. Well, we all know that there is little freedom in Tibet to voice anything, so it should not come as a surprise that most things happen outside Tibet. But I think that it makes sense that people outside Tibet care about the Tibetan cause. Only from outside can you get a good view of what is going on. We see things a lot more clearly when we look at things from a distance. We get a panoramic view, a holistic view of things. It is one thing to be inside Tibet and fed all that propagandist material and another thing to look at things as they are from the outside, as they truly exist.

Comment from Josee
Time: April 1, 2008, 2:00 pm

Lhadon, my family and I have been following very closely for years on your constant efforts to FREE TIBET and we are very proud of you and admire your courage. I have been educating as many people as I can by sending them the link to Biejing Wide Open so we can all share what you see, feel and experience and we thank you.

Comment from Tian
Time: April 2, 2008, 11:38 pm

Thank you, Tenzin, for your thorough response. I’m glad we can have some genuine dialogue on here at last.

I agree with some of what you said. One sided propaganda certainly encompass the bulk of Chinese elementary education. I don’t know if you ever lived in China. If you have, then you know what I am talking about. Even today, school children are still taught a “correct” view of politics and history all throughout the mandatory nine years of education. This is true even in high school and it is simply ridiculous. As you can see from the posts on this blog, the result of this education is passionate, borderline militant, fanaticism. And when mixed with intense social pressure such as unemployment and corruption the atmosphere here can be tense at times.

The cause for this mess is largely due to the insane politics between the 60s to 80s. During this time, China went through a multitude of economic failures due to outside trade embargoes, debt payments (to Soviet Union), and idiotic government policies (Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution). Brainwashed adults provided almost free labor for the state 24-7 in order to build the motherland. Their children, without proper guidance or education were left to fend for themselves in a harsh environment. On top of this is the fact that they were all very poor, hungry, and brainwashed by intense, one sided, propaganda. So essentially, that entire generation from the late 50s were considered the “lost generation”. These kids grew up with only one goal in mind, to enrich themselves and enjoy a better life.

Eventually, through hard work, connections, and luck they were able to pull through and climb to high positions in the Chinese state today. Their lack of education and resources during childhood may explain for the unsophisticated policies toward the Tibetan people.

However, although I am very critical of their policies, I do not think the leaders are bad people. They are unsophisticated and one sided. But no matter what the circumstance, I refuse to believe that they made policies with the intention to favor the Han or wipe out the Tibetans in a western style “genocide” like some of these sites portray. This is simply impossible judging from an unbiased analysis of culture, politics, and history.

Instead, I think what they are advocating is for assimilation, which some of the Tibetans accepted and some have not. Now of course, there is the possibility of bias because of my background. But again, judging from human nature and what I observed, I refuse to believe that ALL Tibetans are advocating for full independence. Some Tibetans have become very successful businessman in China. And they are happy from the wealth. A few blocks from my apartment is a Tibetan goods store. Its owner is Tibetan and he is doing VERY well.

Apparently, there is a divide even within your own camp. The elder generation are more loyal to the Dalai Lama who advocate for greater autonomy rather than independence. Judging from common sense and unbiased, keen observations, I would still assert that your group is NOT the majority in Tibet. Perhaps it is now, after the rebellion, but I am still doubtful.

People like you in Tibet represent the extreme portion of society. These are usually young men who are frustrated by unemployment and change. They see the Han as foreign and undeserving to rule over them even though they passed legislation to help the Tibetans. Because they are young and bold they refuse to use reason and think of the consequences. They rebel and the government tries to stop the rebellion. This leads to animosity which further fuels rebellion. And it snowballs. I think the riot this year represents the culmination of this snowball effect.

I would abstain from debating the issue of whether if Tibet belongs to China. History does not grant an advantage to either side in the debate. Instead, as an aspiring economist, I would argue that whichever side has the best chance of improving the general welfare of its subjects in the region is the side that should rule. So far, neither side fits the description. The CCP is too conservative and unsophisticated in its policies and should incorporate more Tibetan religious elements in the decision process. On the other hand, the Tibetan Youth Congress’s proposals are so economically and politically unreasonable that I think it would be lunacy to have them rule independently. In the end, I only care about the welfare of the people living there, not the politics. And like I said earlier, you and other political activists like you act on irrational passions which will only lead to disaster.

As for prejudice in Western countries, it definitely exist. End of story. You are blind and in denial if you refute this claim. Having gone to school in the United States for a few years and interned at a bulge bracket investment bank I can assure you there is prejudice. For example, at the senior managing level, there are very few to no minorities. This is the case for both the banking and legal industry. Minorities work there as cheap labor. Your statement of “in America, you can be whoever you want to be” is an idealistic aspiration not the reality. At the base of western democracies, sure, anyone can be whoever they want to be if they work hard enough. But getting in is not the same as making it to the top. A Tibetan has a far higher chance of rising in a profession field in China than in any western country. Trust me. The European business community is just as biased as its American counterpart.

Comment from Fred Won
Time: April 4, 2008, 12:18 am

I would like to share a few personal thoughts on this. I found the dialogue between Tian and Tenzin interesting. My understanding and interest in Tibet and Tibetan call for independence have certainly been increased by the news reports on the recent unrest in Tibet.

I had the opportunity/honor of shaking the hand of and listened to the speech of the holy Dalai Lama in New York. I believe his commitment to peaceful resolution of the Tibetan situation, although Beijing government portrayed him as the instigator of the violence in the unrest. I suspect there is possible disconnect between his leadership and the lower level captains of Tibet organization.

But I think the argument whether the unrest is “freedom fighting” or “riot” is not really important. I agree with Tian on the point that the final goal of any human struggle is to maximize the benefit to the group. I believe every human being has the right to pursue a good life. The question is: Which way is better for the people in Tibet, independence or autonomy as advocated by the Middle Way (e.g. some model like the Hong Kong SAR)?

With independence, I believe what Tian explained is true… The road will be long and hard, economically and politically.

To do the Middle Way, it is much easier… especially given the fact that the Beijing government is getting more and more flexible in political dealings (e.g. Hong Kong, Taiwan). This year, with the current global attention, might be a good opportunity to negotiate a reasonable settlement for the short term and long term benefit of the Tibetan people. If the Tibetan people are currently suffering under the direct rule of Beijing government, then this highly autonomous Tibet government will be the fastest route to provide relief in the short run. In the long run, the chance to tap into China economic boom is promising.

I have lived/worked in Beijing for about four years recently for an international corporate assignment. I get the feeling that Beijing government is very paranoid about unrests from many possible sources (minorities, unemployed, farmers, mine workers, etc). But I do get the impression that the current administration are more academic oriented and more open to new ideas. There are genuine desires to update policies to make it better for everyone involved. The adoption of Confucius teaching of “harmonious society” is genuine, because communism has lost its legitimacy; they need the ancient teaching to create a peaceful environment for China economic engine to keep going. Of course there is always possible discrepancies between design and implementation… or, just simply mistakes in the original design plan that need future correction.

My view, different from that of hardcore separatists, is that Tibet international organizations need to focus on pushing the Middle Way advocated by the holy Dalai Lama.

All the best to the people in Tibet.

Comment from FukaLama
Time: April 4, 2008, 10:39 pm

You and all Tibetan independent pushers are NOTHING but liars, total liars. Now, you start to resort to violence. Bring it on!
Freedom of Tibet? Tibet was liberated by China from abosolute slavery ruled by a few aristocrat monks. You just can stand that fact that you lost the power to abuse all Tibetans. Tibet will NEVER NEVER NEVER be independent. Markt it up, you losers

Comment from FukaLama
Time: April 4, 2008, 10:41 pm

Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil Dalai Lama is evil

Comment from FukaLama
Time: April 5, 2008, 6:06 pm

Dalai Lama: “China was behind the violence”. Proof? A picture in which Chinese army soldiers each holding a monk gown. This was also widely retransmitted and reported by the western media. Fact? The picture was taken in Septempber 2001 when soldiers were used a background actors for movie “Tian Wan Chuan Qi”

Comment from Pratish
Time: April 11, 2008, 7:40 pm

From years of jottling for their independence from the cruel communist regime in China, Tibetans must now realise that independence cannot be won by mere showcasing their cause in international forums and staging protests against the Chinese government during international events (including the ongoing Olympic torch run).
Do the Tibetan people and especially Dalai Lama really think that International agencies and other countries like US, India will take up their cause for autonomy and lock horns with the Chinese govt on the issue? If yes, then i must say that I havent met a bunch of most falsely optimistic people than the Tibetans in my life.
With growing globalisation and dependency of countries on each other’s economy for mutual growth taking up the centrestage, no body would like to agitate the other party by bringing up sensitive issues. Even US is pursuing the Tibetan and Taiwan issue to the extent that they keep a strict vigil on China’s growing military prowess and yes, they dont pull the elastic too far to take the ire of the Chinese govt also.
This is evident from the fact that inspite of huge no. of human rights violation cases springing up in China, US has failed to impose any economic or military sanctions against China. All because even the US cant afford to take any actions against the fastest growing economy and military power in the world.

Now the question arises, how do the Tibetans then fight for their cause against the mighty Chinese regime???
First of all, Tibetans must have a common goal to achieve and that should be nothing short of complete independence from the erstwhile Chinese govt. Dalai Lama’s motive of complete independence changing to autonomy under the Chinese has not helped their cause at all, instead weakened it.

Secondaly, its the **Tibetans only** who can fight for their independence and nobody else can do it for them, no matter how much they cry over it in front of others. **Independence is a thing to fight for, not beg for**.

Thirdly, if Mahatma Gandhi and other Indian leaders would have taken asylum in some other country and fought for Indian independence staging protests and shouting slogans from there, India would have never achieved independence. Point is, **you can’t cook a dish if the flame is too far**.